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User talk:Akuthia
Did you get your Rough Boggart Stones? Hey, and welcome to the wiki! As you can probably tell, we've got a long way to go yet, so keep up the contributions. I see you're adding stuff as you discover it, which is exactly what I'm doing. The only suggestion that I'd make is to abandon whatever template you've found for items, as it doesn't contain enough information. Try using this as a guide (http://lastremnant.wikia.com/wiki/Aged_Shield), although if you have any better ideas, we're all ears. Any luck with that dive point? Ferret37 02:11, 31 January 2009 (UTC) nope no luck, it didnt spawn, and i got side tracked by a dragon for about the past hour... gonna bounce over to blackdale and see where that one is, then maybe come back here. And i'll take your suggestion on the items, i basically just did a search for something until i had something come up and used it. did find it in obsidian trail though, trying to use the template you gave me, but its making my head hurt... i dont see anywhere you have the item name actually in there..... previous two blobs of text written by Akuthia 03:03, 31 January 2009 (UTC) No item name? The item name will be the title of the page, so won't appear when you're editing it. I don't often create pages from scratch. I just find one in the right format, copy and paste, and edit the details. Personally, I find the source code easier to edit (huh, in my day "source code" was a string of 0s and 1s). Certainly easier to cut and paste though. Ferret37 03:18, 31 January 2009 (UTC) i agree! thats why when im looking at the source and i dont see anything referencing the actual item, im scratching my head and groaning like time allen! Akuthia 03:23, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Ahh! now i see what you're saying, dang hidden info... Akuthia 03:40, 31 January 2009 (UTC) I'm noticing one problem.... And that is that some of the higher level arent pulling the info automatically, which it seems like, in some cases, they should, for instance Anthrovore Family does not automatically add all of the info from the sub pages (such as mandragora) so basically, for every monster that is added, the information has to be duplicated. Might i suggest just having the individual monsters, and locations on the family screen? Akuthia 04:02, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Not that you're my personal instructor, or anything, but... how would i go about adding a sub category? i want to get the lotion arts started, but dont wanna screw it up heh Akuthia 04:37, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Take a look at.. Young Bud for what i think is a cleaner, more concise, useful item template for TLR Um, lots of stuff (sorry, needed to sleep) Monsters and families No, the family pages don't update automatically. It would be nice if they did, but I'm not good enough at any kind of markup language to make it happen. The way I've been working on the bestiary is to use the location pages as a base. This made sense to me as sometimes monsters will have different drops depending on where they are. When I've finished my current playthrough, I'll go through all the locations transferring data into the family pages, and when that's done I plan to sort out the individual monster pages. Occasionally if I feel I have enough data to make it worthwhile I'll update families and monsters on the spot. I'll always do this with rare monsters. I agree that a lot of the information on the family and monster pages is duplication, but I'm not so sure that it's a problem. If there's room on the page to get info in without cluttering it too much, why not have it? Lotions, and categories Categories are generated automatically. The way I'd go about creating a Lotion Arts category page is to click on the link on the Young Bud page. The only edit you need to make is a brief description of the category (and of course categorising it as an Item Art). Item layout Yes, I like this, much less confusing. Condensing the rarely used boxes into one makes a lot of sense, as does adding the item's use. Having said that, I do like the professional look of an infobox. One of these days I'll get around to designing a better one... Now, back to the game. Where did I put those Dragon Livers? Ferret37 12:21, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Item template Hmm... how about this (Dragon Liver)? Ferret37 13:44, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Item Templates I'm leaving this here as it seems to be the main discussion point. The only problem I see with a new item template is that ALL of the current pages will need to be edited in order for it to follow a concise layout. If you would like, I can design an infobox that will have the basic information, then we can just have two subheadings for drops and splits as they are the largest sections. We could then have a subheading for uses, especially in items such as cureleaf etc. that are used in item arts as well as a generic use. Andrealinia970 13:56, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Lots of replies! Familes Hmm do you have access to the guts of the main bestiary page? it says its automated, and I'd guess it's just pulling anything categorized as bestiary and dropping it in there, might be able to re-engineer that, if i could see it... Item Template While redoing the templates would be a good bit of work, i think it would improve things a lot, right now, there's a lot of items that only have one box filled in, so it looks very empty. Unfortunately, I'm such a noob at this wiki stuff, I'm not sure what you mean by infobox, i read something about it yesterday but, don't really remember it. Edit: Oh, and as far as why not include all the information on the family page... well, then it seems to me like the individual pages are overly redundant, there's NOTHING new on them, the way it's set up... Akuthia 14:07, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Infobox Demo Aerial Insecta Feather I just put an info box there and changed the layout to how I was suggesting. As for the bestiary page, that is a category so, like you said, it just automatically pulls anything that is labelled bestiary, but there is no way to access the coding (that I've found). However, for the regular monsters and rare monsters pages - the links in the menu bar can be changed to link to the category and that page could be deleted as it's not really necessary. Andrealinia970 14:15, 31 January 2009 (UTC) ehm, The problem i forsee with that box, is that it will likely get very, cluttered, once you start adding monsters that drop a given item... Akuthia 14:22, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Drops That's why the monster drops aren't in the info box, they are on the actual page. The infobox is just that little bit at the right hand side. As for the family pages, we could just have the categories that tell you which monster is in which category and get rid of the extra information such as what they drop etc. Andrealinia970 14:25, 31 January 2009 (UTC) ah, sorry, didnt say what i meant to type wasn't the monster drops i was referring to but "Found At", it looks even with 2 or 3 areas where an item might be dropped at, it would get very full looking Akuthia 14:28, 31 January 2009 (UTC) My mistake That was supposed to be where the item was found in a treasure chest so I edited the infobox to display that better >_< Andrealinia970 14:28, 31 January 2009 (UTC) hmmmm I'm not really sure there's enough chests in this game to make it worthwhile to have a line dedicated to it on EVERY item page Akuthia 14:53, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Worthwhile in other ways Maybe not every item will be in a chest but at least, if people are looking for a particular component, they'll know it's not found in any treasure chests... Otherwise, if a treasure chest is mentioned on one item's page and not another, people may think "well why isn't a treasure chest mentioned on this item?" Andrealinia970 14:55, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Infoboxes and layouts I think the treasure chest line is worth keeping. Yes, it will be empty for the vast majority of items, but that's still better than having an untidy "oh, yeah, you can also get this in a chest" line at the end of the few articles that would need it. As for the duplication between monster and family pages, I'm coming to the conclusion that a redesign of the family page is probably the best option. The individual monster page should be where the bulk of the information is located, as (especially with rare monsters) there is just too much data to make deleting these pages viable. Hmmm... I'm going to go play with some layouts. Ferret37 16:57, 31 January 2009 (UTC) take a look at Butterfly Family for what I think a family page should look like. Akuthia 18:44, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Butterfly page I really like that layout! It gives information on where to find the creatures as well as an indication of it being rare, common or boss from the colour of the row. I'm not sure what to do about the information on the location pages. I believe that needs to be reduced as there is way too much. However, I don't know if monsters drop certain items in specific places or if it's just generic. If it's generic then the families, drops, splits, and capture value can be taken off from those and just leave the name of the monster. If it's specific then maybe we could modify the monster's pages to say which items are dropped in a specific location and which are dropped everywhere. I came up with a new layout for a monster page that I would like your opinions on: Viscious Plant Another thing we could add to the family pages is possibly a list of items that ALL of those family members drop? Andrealinia970 18:56, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Here's what I think... the creature should be the base layer and should have ALL of the information there is on THAT creature. Everything Else points back to that creature. So lets say you're running around Mt. Vackle, and you see a monster that hasn't been listed at being there, instead of retyping everything for it, you merely point back to the monster, and add it to the known inhabitants list, or whatever. Same thing with items, need to know if something drops a specific item, list the monsters that drop it, grouped by area, so its easy to see that X monster types drop Y item in area A. EDIT: I also think that we should change the coloration if we go with this family template. i got it from what is already here, but the colors that it says, dont match up to what it looks like (at least to me) For instance, the color for birdwing looks to be purple, to me, but i got it from a listing of another rare mob... Akuthia 19:21, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Comment I don't quite understand what you're saying about the colour scheme... >_< As for the family and monster pages... I think I get what you're meaning... A monster page will have: capture value, locations, drops, splits and family type. Under the drops there will be an area subheading with a list of items it drops in that area. On the items page there will be a section where you list the families that drop or split into said item. On the families page there will be a list of monsters in that family which specify the location each monster can be found in. Yes? Andrealinia970 21:21, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Yep, except on an items page, it may be a mix of entire families, and specific monsters, since i think theres a chance only higher level ones may drop or split into certain things What i mean with the color scheme,is i think there is too much similarity between the "red" that is being used and a purple, which i dont think i've seen used yet. I think we need to choose a different set of three colors. Maybe no highlight, (plain white) for bosses (since that looks bland, and wouldnt present well with an area full of regular mobs and no bosses) to the blue in use now for rares, and maybe a green shade for regular mobs Akuthia 22:01, 31 January 2009 (UTC) ::Why would you want the rare to to be blue? I always thought rare when I saw red because it seems like a more forbidding colour, specifying that it's harder than a regular blue monster. As for a link to where the purple is used: Treant Family though I could easily understand that being changed. For now it might be better just leaving the item pages to list families rather than specific monsters - at least until we find an item that is definitely not dropped by any other family member. Andrealinia970 22:27, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Drops I'm fairly certain that drops vary with area and BR, although I can't see the exact mechanics of it. Unless we find out otherwise, I'm not comfortable taking out this specific information. There are plenty of items that are dropped by some family members but not others - for example, Large Donda Talon is dropped by Donda but no other Imps. So either the relevant item page will need to have specific monster types, or that information will have to go in the family page, which is something I thought we were trying to get away from. Nice picture, by the way! Ferret37 22:42, 31 January 2009 (UTC) well for one, order of toughness, since EQ came out with color con, has been white Monster and item pages should definitely be where all the information on that monster or item is located. Family pages don't need this. While I personally like having drops and splits on the location page, they are not really necessary and the page could be made much more accessible by trimming down excess data. And yeah, yello/orange works for me too. Ferret37 23:08, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Monster templates I've created three different coloured templates for the three types: Template:Infobox boss, Template:Infobox rare and Template:Infobox monster. I'm not sure if they need to hold any more information, but if you think they do just add it in (or tell me and I'll put it in if you're not sure how!)) Andrealinia970 23:10, 31 January 2009 (UTC) is this how you imagine it looking? Diatryma I think there is too much blank space if you format it with the infobox above the table Akuthia 23:31, 31 January 2009 (UTC) No, more like this? Added a HP line for rare infobox. Eye of Damnation Ferret37 23:52, 31 January 2009 (UTC) I hate to say it, but that's STILL alot of empty white space, imo. I hate having to scroll needlessly, and in this case, i tihnk thats what im doing, but maybe it will grow on me... now to see if i can duplicate it Akuthia 00:12, 1 February 2009 (UTC) well I think i got it, but i guess the art student in me just hates all that blank space.... Akuthia 00:19, 1 February 2009 (UTC) HP Is there any point in having HP? I've noticed that it's really really hard to actually figure out how much damage you've done unless you're very good at adding figures quickly. It's also more of an estimation than an actual figure since HP doesn't feature much enemy wise (ie, a group with 5 spiders in will have more HP than one with 4 so we'd have to have the HP for one spider which may confuse users) Just my opinion... your thoughts welcome! Andrealinia970 00:34, 1 February 2009 (UTC) HP For individual, regular mobs, you are correct, however, it can be useful for boss mobs, which is what he added it to. Theres only going to be one boss mob in a unit, the only thing im not sure of, is whether or not it's going to scale with BR, making it relatively pointless anyways Akuthia 00:37, 1 February 2009 (UTC) HP again No, there's no point in having it for regular monsters. It's useful for rare and bosses (more useful for rare, as it can give you some idea if you're completely outclassed). I'm certain it doesn't scale with BR, which is why some rares are practically impossible early on but a walk in the park later. As for accuracy, the way I get the number is to save before starting a fight and write down the damage that each union does each turn. Once the monster is at critical, I switch to weak attacks. Reload and repeat four or five times. This gives an accuracy of +/-1000HP (sometimes better). Blank space... yes, I agree, it looks a little bare. A possible solution would be to put drops, splits and arts back into a table, but to the left of the infobox instead of above it. I have to go to work now, but if I get a chance I'll see if I can knock up an example at lunch time. Ferret37 09:37, 1 February 2009 (UTC) Blank Space? I'm kind of confused... what do you mean blank space? I can't see any personally.... if you're just going on about the bare factor in general then that is easily remedied by finding more information to add! Andrealinia970 12:12, 1 February 2009 (UTC) what im referring to is all of the space between the links (like drops) and the info box to the right. Akuthia 12:52, 1 February 2009 (UTC) :: OH! I solved this by putting drops and splits into a table. See Charybdis and Dagon Andrealinia970 12:54, 1 February 2009 (UTC)